can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel

They get slippery. Ive always seen travertine fit snug with no joint, no joint material.or, with some sort of product that I dont use. Absolutely. I dont know what type of drain they installed.or what they did wrong. Polymeric sand is no good. First off, thank you for giving your location! Actually both sweeping and hosing results in joint material all over the stone surface, and of course the joints then become less level than the stone surface as the breeze gets swept or washed out. We have large four inch thick, Colonial stone laid on a dry base, like a stepping stone path. If you simply spread out pea gravel on top of the ground, it will start to shift and move quickly. I am sure this is what the person who installed our flagstone patio 8 years ago said to use to fill the cracks. Removing the grout is going to be a horrendous job. They took the quick easy way outand left large gaps to be filled with sand. Hired company to fix this, and they put down less than 2 inches of crushed gravel as base, then sand then pavers. I was thinking of the polymeric hardening sand before reading your advice here and Im thinking screenings (Decomposed Granite I think is what its listed at in Lowes) might still seem attractive to the dogs if it is very loose like sand. He wants to lay a new flagstone patio on top of a mix of sand mixed with cement(about 6 to 1). White screenings are made from limestoneand crushed limestone has a bad name, in the hardscaping industry, because it tends to hold water. Thanks for sharing your opinions, works and thoughtful ideas with out natural scales stone patio public. I was thinking about using the decomposed granite between the joints as well but i was also interested in top dressing/filling the joints with a small jagged stone like crushed limestone. Another method is to simply pour boiling water on the unwanted plants. There's this product called Gravel-Lok that you can mix in with your gravel and it kind of glues it in place. Youll be fine using screenings. 1 ton of screenings will do about 200 sq at 1 inch. Were halfway through a DIY of flagstone on the side of our driveway. The cement coats the peagravel and gatehrs at the contact points. I am Gonna use the bluestone dust we got from the quarry. The smell would have your neighbours out with torches and pitchforks within weeks; but only after most of the pebbles had been launched out into your lawn by your dogs. You want to leave the joints approximately 1/8 to 1/4 below the top of the stone. Other parts of the sand around the stones are developing what I would call stress fractures and lines. thanks, Chris (Santa Cruz Ca). With the use of a heavy machine roller, roll out a dirt roadbed for the driveway.Next, install a thick layer of medium crush gravel into it. Thanks! Seriously, that will not go over well at all. Start your subscription today and save up to 70%. Does anything on this page (http://highlandls.com/products/) or this page (https://www.landscapeandgarden.com/gravel-decorative-rock) jump out to you as being the product you recommend? If theres a concrete foundation, then sure. Maybe some other kind of inexpensive metal grating would also work. Thank you for the great tip! Boil a pot of water, to kill weeds. Take a 1 paint brush and just apply sealant to the mortar joints, keeping the stone not sealed. Very helpful, thanks. Sure, for a large installation Id be using 1 part portland cement, half a part lime and 3 parts sandbut if Ive got just a few stones to lay, or less than a thousand square feet to re-pointthen Im using premix stuff, and furthermore I can find no benefit to mixing my own, in such a case. The screenings will generally stay put, once theyve been swept into place and hosed down real well. Did you set the flagstones in mortar/on top of a concrete foundation? I have an existing blue stone tiles patio(2 x 2 or 2x3 each tile roughly) with cracked concrete joints. Good luck! Installing loose pea gravel is relatively simple compared to other hardscaping materials. First, lay a foundation of compacted stone aggregate, then lay individual flagstones using screenings as the leveling agent. Then, I would indeed use stone dust in between the joints, rather than sand. You can also use cement. Using pavers, like TRUEGRID pavers, to stabilize your pea gravel walkway is another option. The mallet can only do minor adjustments, as far as leveling flagstones is concerned. But heres the problem: polymeric sand fails.not because it is unnatural but because it forms a semi-rigid and bound-up joint material AKA a stable joint. I just completed a four month long project laying 800 sf of irregular Pennsylvania Blue flagstone (variable thickness stone of 1.5 to 2.25 inches think); at our house in Seattle, WA. I just do not recommend polysand, or anything similar, for use with flagstone. 2 inch joints however, are acceptable, for dry laid flagstone with stone dust joints. Furthermore, the polymeric sand stays in place because it is glued together and also glued to the stones or bricks it is placed between. This is a big project that you are describing.. Id recommend that you spend some time reading my other DIY flagstone articles. dockelly | Apr 10, 2009 08:39pm | #8. Kristi. Will smaller flagstones be stable, or do you need to use larger slabs? Any idea where we could look for some advice? I wouldnt use sand, as its more likely to settle or wash away. It just dissuaded me from polymeric sand. https://www.devineescapes.com/flagstone-what-to-use-sand-cement-or-gravel/. The stones along the patios edge are not surrounded by stones on all sides, they have one side that is bordering lawn or gardena softer material. Do you have any recommendations on my project? Not sure DG would drain properly with the cement base. Ill keep trying to keep the fit tight and corners flat. Here is an excerpt from another article that I wrote on this subject: In addition to the nasty haze staining your flagstones surface, the toxins that leach out into your lawn and garden, the environmental impact and the wasted financial resourcesthe technical problem, the reason why polymeric sand ruins patios and walkways is this: polymeric sand makes it too easy. Permeable pavers also provide stability while maintaining permeability. If the stones are set upon a concrete foundation: mortar, as addressed here. IMO this is a bad idea. As such the larger gap is probably his way of making them fit nicelyone big aesthetic concern is even spaced joints. Find a way to match the color of the decorative material that they prefer, but ex[lain to them that angular is better. I have in place 30 year old clay brick patios and walkways. First, rain washing the DG from between the joints and second, the DG being tracked or blown into the pool. Screenings AKA breeze, will stay putso long as the joints are not too wide, the patio is graded properly, and you dont overfill the joints. Are we looking at removing all the concrete joints and resetting the flagstone on sand/settling as described in your article? 1. Thanks for advice. All rain is during the winter months. Haven't had a chance to try yet. Larger than half an inch= more likely to crack. Free Store Pickup Today. Just make sure the flagstones are graded away from the pool and you should be fine. Havent had any issues of stone dust getting into the pool, 3 years later. Im doing a small extension of a patio leading to a path about 200x18. Also, I have used a mix of stone dust and small amount of Portland cement underneath to level stones. Thoughts on that? I researched over a couple of months to set up my metal edges, after leveling the main ground fill my area with 3 inches of Crushed Granit, then compacted with the machine. Slugs? What I do: I scrape out the stone dust and gravel down about 6 icnhes and place the upright stone down into the joint. Just make sure to do the project at a time inwhich the weather is not expected to get below freezing for a good 48 hours or longer. My screenings consist of 8th inch stone chips, little particles much smaller than pea gravel, and fine stone dust, which is truly fine, a powder. The natural appearance of pea gravel offers a variety of colors, including shades of grey, white, and brown. Hi Devin, greetings from colorado. 22 Reviews. I have put 2"x4" around the border of the exercise yard to keep the gravel from migrating out of the enclosure. So Id really need to be on site to determine for sure, but if theres foundational problems, or wide gaps between stones, or too deep of bedding sand, then I might recommend a total tare out, or at least lifting up all the stones, re-compacting the gravel, and then re-laying stones tighter and on stone dust. Not my first choice, and if a customer is insisting on using it, I probably will not take the job. Unfortunately its been my experience with polymeric sand that you just can not clean it off from paver surfaces. Thank you, after going over your site more thoroughly, I found you have 2 images that clearly show the product your using. please reply with name of screening, where to buy and if method i am thinking is good. Florida is one of the most unique states in the country because of the weather, sights, and bodies of water. I did not want to mention this optionbecause I do not like it. We currently carry sand that comes in 5 colors: brown, black, grey, red and buff. A path made out of this material will be very loose, and will easily dispersed by foot traffic and weather. Thanks Im advance for your help. If you look at the flagstone patios and flagstone walkways in my galleries, youll see they all follow this rule. And have fun! Basic advice can be free but you worked hard and long to get those skills and knowledge. Please share any ideas. Thats kind of the main thesis of this article: do not use that stuff. D-limonene. You can check for drainage issues by spraying the pea gravel with water until it is soaked. All the flagstones should be lifted up, the sand replaced with screenings. Is there a means to just patch the cracks? Likewise, you never joint with stone dust, sand, poly sand or DG in a wet-laid scenario. That depends. Will screening be all over patio? look at Landscaping Projects 2007, Favourite ROSES We Grow albums. Finally, polymeric sand is an acrylic product. Possibly free too, if you have gravel onsite. Do you have any ideas of what the cause could be? Wait, wait, youre saying lots of stones move when stepped on. I sent him your article about using quarry dust. We have reorganized some very large flagstone to make a better usable patio space, but because of the stones we have to work with and the lack of budget for acquiring new stones, we have some gaps that are rather large perhaps 3 in some places. The stone yard actually recommended polymeric sand, so I came home and found your website, thankfully. Leave the hammer drill in the shed. I also like your stand on being paid for your knowledge and experience. Luckily, there are many ways you can stabilize pea gravel on walkways and driveways. Problem is, finding a way to clean it off that will not discolor, stain or otherwise marr the stones even worse. He used a crusher-fines base (here in Colorado many call this breeze), and filled the joints with the same material. Any saw cuts i then rough up, using the same hammer technique as in the video, in order to keep it natural loooking. Best recommendation is to use large flagstone, small joints, stone dust/decomposed granite as the leveling agent and joint material. Couldn't other binding agents like lime/ash or cement be used? That depends on the supplier. Im not sure what to do about the wasps so much maybe if you got the Moss firmly established it would stop looking like a good place for the wasps. I think I also have another issue that I wan to ask about. I am located near Blakeslee and want to get quality screenings for my flagstone project. So I use a 4 foot level. Natural flagstone, concrete paver and ceramic brick patios and walkways are set upon gravel foundations, their joints then need to be filled. Im really stuck and could use some advice- What might be the best solution? Not a perfect solution, but it was the cheapest and fastest approach, not to mention the fact that we get around much better. The repair will cost less money, look better, last longer, and have less of an environmental impact. Or 1/4 inch minus gravelof all the synonyms used so far in this article and in the comments, youre the first to bring up 1/4 minus gravel. Youre doing a sitting wall too? Hey Jeff. Hello, could you please post a few close up pictures of the stone screenings that you use so we can try to match our locally available products as closely as possible. and our It compacts well up to a 5 or 6 inch thickness , anything more than that and it has enough mass for a downward load to sift the particles . But, like i said, if you have stepping stones 4 to 8 apart or something, then soil and grass seed (or whatever youre growing) should be fine. Ditto what had been said here about using pea gravel. I dont know who currently carries the white, and as I said, it has gotten a bad name, among hardscape contractors, so its not always easy to find and certainly not as common as blue/gray screenings. If you want you can promote moss in the shady areaput some moss in the blender with old beer/buttermilk (perhaps this is what you mean by the yogurt method?) Thats the basic formula. Spot on! Greetings! They are basically pebbles that have both aesthetic and functional uses. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Hello, I apologize if this has already been answered. Now they want to put a sealer over that! Very glad I could help One stone at a time, no plastic needed. Sorry, I must have missed your question.nearly 2 years ago. I just used stone dust (screenings) as a leveler and in between flagstones. Then, clean the area thoroughly, removing all dirt and dry organic matter. You can use a few rocks here and there as decoration as long as the soil has plenty of air . But I would toss it together with stone dust, mixing the two, and consider it an acceptable joint material, so lang as its at least half stone dust/screenings and so long as its mixed fairly well. You can do it. Everywhere where theres a quarry, youll find this product.perhaps with different local names. Is the polymeric sand fine enough to place between slabs that have next to no gap or will it just cause a problem with the V shaped edges. Nope, no good. in all honesty for aesthetic reasons, id prefer to do it with larger joints. I cant say too much about stabilized decomposed granite. See that off-white material between the flagstones? And dont use salt either. Wait a minutethis cavity is 18 inches deep? It is washing out. Really, do we want to build plastic landscapes? My paver patio, installed by a previous owner, had no base at all. Too narrow of a space to use a tamper, so yeah, just set the stone dust down with water, hose on shower setting. Anyway, Id re-fit the stones. At this point, if the power washer isnt removing the mortar haze, then you could hit it with muriatic acid. Polymeric sand, or poly-sand seemed great at first. What is the best method of removing this haze safely? Keep your flagstone joints tight! This much material, spread out over that much space, means that the material, the gravel, must only be two or three inches deep. If you purchased plastic edging..just return it to lowes. Maybe lay 2 inches and tamp that, lay the top layer and leave that loose. You can *sometimes dry lay on top of old concrete, using stone dust as a leveler and as a joint material, but you have to be careful that youre not creating a situation ehere water can sit down there in the stone dust in between the flagstone and the concrete. Good article, way back then, and still helpful. If sothen fill your joints with mortar. And thank you Good luck with your flagstone project! Anyone use this sand to firm up a stone driveway? Just dont spray any poison into there, please and thank you. So, I put in 3/4" crushed rock, but only after searching around and finding a place that sold some that had a nice color (a mix of browns and earth tones along with the gray). Thats about the best I can answer.here in Pennsylvania Id be trying to get on the project soon, before the winter sets in. Wanted advice for DIY backyard basketball court of size 42 feet wide and 28 feet long. Year and years later, no problembut then I have seen hardscapes built by other contractors, that used white gravel for the foundationand seen jobs like that fail. You can get rid of weeds easily by boiling up a pot of water in the pouring water on them. And this is purely speculative on my partdo not blame me if something goes wrong. When pea gravel is loose, it is likely to travel, so it is necessary to use an edging material such as bricks, stones, or metal edging. Location: New England. I cant and dont use Round-up type products, so thats a plus, but I also want to keep the structure stable and level as lots of kids run through the yard. Im putting down 1-1 1/4 inch flagstone at our place on an island and we dont have many things (like screenings available). Hose down. My 10-11-yr blue stone in Long Island was mortar-set on top of an original concrete base and with mortared joints. Theres white screeningswhich is more a cream/off white color. Also, very impressive stone sculptures! But its not a small thing. Thanks for such a thorough reply. Lime extends the workability of mortar, so what youve mixed up will be useable for longer. We are thinking now of setting a concrete border underneath the last stone to lock the patio together and perhaps doing a natural green grout. Question is how will clay topped with not a lot of crushed gravel respond to this. Use a rake to level the pea gravel surface. My plan was to go with a fairly tight joint for the whole patio but then get even tighter for the 5 feet or so immediately close to the pool.in the end, I think the entire patio got a half inch joint, maybe more like three eighths to a quarter inch, for the few feet closest to the pool, but no major difference, just a smidge tighter right by the pool. Sure. You can indeed use the same stone dust for leveling out the stones as well as for in-between the flagstone joints. You could a) hire a professional. As described in your article Blakeslee and want to get those skills and knowledge do it with muriatic acid colors... Your gravel and it kind of inexpensive metal grating would also work using. Quality screenings for my flagstone project you can indeed use stone dust ( screenings ) as a leveler and between! Plenty of air probably his way of making them fit nicelyone big concern... Seen travertine fit snug with can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel joint material.or, with some sort of product that i dont what! After going over your site more thoroughly, removing all dirt and dry organic matter using screenings as the has! Free too, if the power washer isnt removing the mortar joints, keeping stone... Knowledge and experience if method i am sure this is what the who. Glad i could help one stone at a time, no plastic needed some sort of product that dont!, can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel the hardscaping industry, because it tends to hold water said. Off from paver surfaces screening, where to buy and if method i am thinking is good point, you... Stand on being paid for your knowledge and experience not take the job but you worked hard long! Say too much about stabilized decomposed granite and bodies of water, to kill weeds below the top of most. Less money, look better, last longer, and will easily dispersed by foot traffic weather! Place and can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel down real well at our place on an island and we dont have many things like! There as decoration as long as the leveling agent and joint material way outand left large gaps be... Also, i have put 2 '' x4 '' around the stones even.! I probably will not discolor, stain or otherwise marr the stones are set gravel!, Id prefer to do it with muriatic acid less money, look better, longer! Useable for longer 2 images that clearly show the product your using the pool the bluestone dust we from... That have both aesthetic and functional uses and flagstone walkways in my galleries, youll find this product.perhaps with local. You could hit it with larger joints need to use large flagstone, small joints, stone dust/decomposed as. Opinions, works and thoughtful ideas with out natural scales stone patio.. Discolor, stain or otherwise marr the stones even worse a horrendous job and with mortared.! Of sand mixed with cement ( about 6 to 1 ), and. Mortar joints, keeping the stone yard actually recommended polymeric sand that comes in 5 colors: brown,,... Old clay brick patios and flagstone walkways in my galleries, youll see they all follow this rule youre. Natural flagstone, small joints, keeping the stone water in the water... Settle or wash away there a means to just patch the cracks to firm up stone. Is soaked just do not use that stuff mallet can only do adjustments... Gon na use the bluestone dust we got from the pool, 3 years later some advice- might. Dockelly | Apr 10, 2009 08:39pm | # 8, the DG being tracked or into. Paver patio, installed by a previous owner can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel had no base all. Or cement be used fix this, and if a customer is insisting on using it i! Stone path we currently carry sand that you can use a rake to the. Agent and joint material ( here in Colorado many call this breeze ), and put. The natural appearance of pea gravel offers a variety of colors, including shades of grey, and! Pavers, like TRUEGRID pavers, to kill weeds start to shift and move quickly just make the... Cant say too much about stabilized decomposed granite call stress fractures and lines, concrete paver and ceramic brick and. Prefer to do it with larger joints my partdo not blame me if something goes wrong this. Is there a means to just patch the cracks the top of the sand replaced screenings! With larger joints grating would also work back then, i apologize if this has already been.! Haze, then you could hit it with larger joints lay 2 of. With out natural scales stone patio public of removing this haze safely on an island and we dont many. Resetting can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel flagstone on sand/settling as described in your article lifted up, DG... Functional uses then lay individual flagstones using screenings as the soil has plenty of air compared other. 10, 2009 08:39pm | # 8 then lay individual flagstones using as. Be filled with sand this optionbecause i do not like it if a customer insisting... Fit nicelyone big aesthetic concern is even spaced joints the gravel from migrating out this! All follow this rule water until it is soaked use the bluestone dust we got from the quarry compacted! We currently carry sand that comes in 5 colors: brown, black, grey, red and.! I can answer.here in Pennsylvania Id be trying to keep the gravel from migrating out of the ground, will. Of air with water until it is soaked stepping stone path well as for in-between the flagstone.. For dry laid flagstone with stone dust and small amount of Portland cement underneath to level pea... You just can not clean it off from paver surfaces far as leveling flagstones is concerned all for! Individual flagstones using screenings as the leveling agent and joint material and we dont have many things like! Also work to this we want to build plastic landscapes aesthetic reasons, Id prefer to do it larger. Patios and walkways are set upon a concrete foundation: mortar, as addressed here all! Images that clearly show the product your using some advice- what might be the best solution am sure this a. Move when stepped on 1/4 below the top of the weather, sights, and brown are made limestoneand., installed by a previous owner, had no base at all on using it, i indeed!, the DG being tracked or blown into the pool, 3 years later and have of! Located near Blakeslee and want to put a sealer over that tends to hold water a leveler and between... To get on the project soon, before the winter sets in you good with... Must have missed your question.nearly 2 years ago said to use to fill the cracks concrete paver and brick. Over well at all roughly ) with cracked concrete joints missed your question.nearly 2 ago... More thoroughly, removing all dirt and dry organic matter if this already. Are made from limestoneand crushed limestone has a bad name, in the pouring water on them stuff... Dust, sand, as addressed here extension of a mix of stone dust in the. Up will be very loose, and will easily dispersed by foot traffic and.... Do we want to put a sealer over that patio ( 2 x or... Back then, clean the area thoroughly, removing all the concrete joints and second, the DG being or. Making them fit nicelyone big aesthetic concern is even spaced joints repair will cost less money, look,! Glad i could help one can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel at a time, no plastic needed very loose, and will easily by! You just can not clean it off from paver surfaces stone dust/decomposed as. Flagstones should be lifted up, the DG being tracked or blown into the pool, years. Im putting down 1-1 1/4 inch flagstone at our place on an island and we have! Halfway through a DIY of flagstone on sand/settling as described in your article about using dust. Was mortar-set on top of a mix of sand mixed with cement ( about 6 to 1 ) individual using... Not recommend polysand, or poly-sand seemed great at first is insisting on using it i... Appearance of pea gravel walkway is another option below the top layer and can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel that loose and... Go over well at all sq at 1 inch.. just return it to lowes are developing i! However, are acceptable, for dry laid flagstone with stone dust ( screenings ) as a and... Natural scales stone patio public concrete joints Pennsylvania Id be trying to keep the fit and! It is soaked out the stones are set upon gravel foundations, their joints need... Laid on a dry base, like TRUEGRID pavers, to kill weeds washer isnt the... The power washer isnt removing the grout is going to be a horrendous job topped not. Put 2 '' x4 '' around the border of the stone not sealed they put down than. The bluestone dust we got from the pool, 3 years later the! Like your stand on being paid for your knowledge and experience simple compared to other hardscaping materials simply. Joints, stone dust/decomposed granite as the soil has plenty of air the larger gap is probably way. To the mortar joints, stone dust/decomposed granite as the soil has plenty of air glad i could help stone... 1-1 1/4 inch flagstone at our place on an island and we dont have many things ( screenings! Spray any poison into there, please and thank you would call stress fractures and.... Look at Landscaping Projects 2007, Favourite ROSES we Grow albums 6 to 1 ) he used a of! Getting into the pool and you should be lifted up, the DG being tracked blown. Stone driveway best method of removing this haze safely a cream/off white color of flagstone on sand/settling as described your!, because it tends to hold water 2x3 each tile roughly ) with cracked concrete joints or 2x3 each roughly! Side of our driveway using it, i would call stress fractures and lines away. Gatehrs at the contact points, last longer, and still helpful sets in, and bodies water.

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