war thunder forum germany suffers

Forming a wide line and covering each other. Not sure why, maybe it's a new bug or there's a spall shield I'm unaware of, but it's really annoying. The only situation where the Panther would in a clear advantage is a plain map where the M18 has no chance for covered approach. Top tier meta is good survivability, mobility, and gun handling, as armor doesn't matter with laser rangefinders and high velocity APFSDS along with lots of CQB maps making weakspots easily hit. Because they know that there will be most probably a trap when they arrive at the cap point. that I won't be able to catch if I miss (only to in best case scenario get about 2k sl from the kill)? You have the turret, lfp, and anywhere on the hull as long as you don't hit the tracks. If you compare the Panther and M18, the M18 is quicker but is not armored nor as well armed. Also get the do and other planes as well that just tear it up with cannons that often have a more lasting affect than allied cas. its guncan flank you with a shell from across the map, Same as the above, never send a tank to do a shell's work. - He will go around you (most maps allow that) and pop up in you rear. They are the equivalent to the surge of M22s that the allies occasionally see when some overly loud youtuber decides to make a video about "haha ebic meme tank"causing an influx. I've been playing the Su-100P lately (pretty underrated, but could still use a lower BR to match the regular Su-100) and it baffles me how many pumas I am seeing from 5.7-7.7. ..and I'm not talking about the vehicles, they're OK-ish. The ATGMs aren't common place but considering germany doesn't get SS.11s until 7.7 it does show the extreme technology advantage the brits have. Germany's problem,at least when it comes to ww2 vehicles, is lack of brawling vehicles past 5.7. The most disappointing part is that the 7.92s seem to always be under performing and relative to the 13mms too. Germany doesn't suffer at all, just a load of the players are awful and don't know how to angle a tiger etc. Pretty much initiallybut when you do this often enough you'll start to see a pattern and this will narrow your choices downquite a bit and increase your chances of success, it can be slow sometimes but that's the nature of hunting. In that experience, I have found that. With no premiums in the medium br.s it is difficult to break even. I "like" how you start out this topic with some kind of meme-theme, that there's nothing to it more than it being perceived as "suffering!" It's strengths clearly outweighs it's burdens when the game is based around city/village structures. At 6.7 the US T series are much more survivable when it comes to being hit. Centurions have a 2-plane stabilizer that for some reason acts like it's from 2020, which lets you use hard cover or play behind a hill, only popping your turret out briefly to take easy shots. This is a battle of patience and cunning. These same players will often say that German vehicles lesser mobility means the Germans simply cannot compete with the more nimble Allied vehicles--ignoring Germanys other merits. sdkfz 123 panzerspahwagen ii luchs fast . Those three qualities are what control the tank's ability. If you haven't noticed I'm implying being one/two steps ahead. It's very weak side armor also means that it's close to pointless to angle it, compared to the Tiger I. Powered by Invision Community. Does Germany suffer and from what? And yes theoretically the bigger and slower tank could try the same tactic, just that it would take him much longer to react, he would be easiert to spot and aim at, and you would give the enemy more time to shoot at you when you cross open terrain. You cant carry against so many players. so german jets are not useless compared to their opponents? When I play american tanks I always use the .50s to take out barrels, it's really effective as long as your enemy has a gun calibre less than 100mm. The 341 is practically an closed top, better armoredM42 with more than double the ROF, 40m/s faster velocity, and almost double the explosive filler that doesn't have it crew killed by 7.62s and doesn't explode from a stray bullet hitting it's exposed ammo. Background: I am a guy who plays all nation with Germany being my single most played nation. Stepping forward progressively is how I use(d) my poor reversing tanks and the Panthers were among them (the British were the biggest group though). Isn't it a bit dishonest to completely "forget" to bring out the more negative aspects of the panther? T28 with 305mm of frontal armor at 6.3? He can easily continue flank and pen King Tigers from the side. Thats why you will often see lack of initiative and decisiveness on German teams. If they're not interested in moving the follow up question should be why they don't when in German vehicles. they turn by applying breaks to one track to initiate the turn. An Panther however loses his main advantage of better armor. Pointing it down doesn't do anything as I've found. 6. As said above, aircraft carriers don't exist in arcade. While mobility has it's place, it's only one of the triad of armament, armor and mobility. In other words it's very hard to find a proper backup. As a person who has played multiple nations, I can again draw on my varied experience for insight on this matter. I found German mobility fair as you already answered the Heavy amor and armament give them a huge advantage and if you play your cards right you can effectively cut off flanking routes to the enemy. Germany does have heavies before the Tiger, namely KV-1B, KV-II 754 and Churchill at 4.0 and KV-1C at 4.7, but they are premiums andeven if you can get them with warbonds, not everyone bothers with them. No he won't hide/wait in a fast boi,he'll drive to your side of the map to look for you if you keep him waiting. He is guaranteed to be faster at the cap point and can set up an ambush. 5. Hard cover will always be superior to armor in WT. You don't need to win the match in the first 5 minutes of the game, late games are a thing. It is however annoying still though. I don't feel I need assume such things as this is already quite relevant to my interests. It's not a perfect strategy as it weakens the cheeks, but I've had a lot of smart american players turn their turret at the last second for an easy bounce. Ok, so you don't agree that it is easier to flank with small and fast vehicles? Tried to flank with the Tortoise? A serious discussion about Axis teams at tier 4 and why they seem to be consistently bad.PLAY WAR THUNDER FOR FREE AND GET 50GE FOR FREE: http://warthunder.. I think it's important to call out that there are a lot of different aspects to mobility. By and large, Germanys main strength is firepower with armor being the secondary asset. One thing to mention is that german 6.7 is actually really good against soviet 6.7, it's the stabilized brit APDS ATGM throwers and impenetrable american T__ heavy tanks that really hurt. I've whacked Leopards with my SU-5-1 but didn't have much to do with the vehicles. Powered by Invision Community, Addressing Germany's real problems: finding the truth behind "Germany suffers!". I almost never see the Swedish Centurion, no matter playing on or against British team. Neither does it have much of a turret traversethis would of course be no issue if the capture points weren't only inside cities where traverse matters!). What? they're glass cannons. The problem with German CAS at most BRs is that US/UK CAS counters German CAS. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. interactions? And if he turns it to the side literally shoot the huge side of the turret that will be exposed. While the M18 can reverse much quicker, it also lurches about far more. None of this is specific to Germany or the Americans mind you. Excellent points; and to add to that is the long-standing issue of the Mk 103 cannon nerf that renders a whole host of effective cannon CAS utterly useless. This is of course a burden if you're in a CQC situation where the APDS will easily pen your frontal armor. Relative merit is in play here. The Panther, by contrast, is reasonably quick for a medium tank, retains decent armor and is vastly better armed. In that experience, I have found that German vehicles mobility is adequate and generally competitive with these peers--despite all of the derisive talk you hear otherwise. Because of the above, one death leavers can be more common due to a lack of supporting vehicles to respawn with. So, lets dive in to look at some of the most common claims: One of the most common complaints that is leveled against the nation of Germany is a perceived lack of mobility. While true a slower tank doesn'tneed totravel very far to find a position that overlooks the positions one wouldplan on exploiting so by the time the fast tanks shows up the slow tankis waiting in its position ready to fire as the fast tank usually has to travel across half the map and the slow tank only has to travel a quarter of the map or less to counter. That's your personal preference. Even then you aren't going to see UK tanks in 100% of your matches. He will command the rules of engagement and the battleground not you. Everything about the HRE, NGC, GE, WR, GR, SP, FRG and GDR. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. Thats because the Germans don't have more modern light tanks in the game. The problem here is that Japan doesn't have a lot of players and thus meeting japanese aircraft is pretty rare in RB. At least 5 times! Like bombing out caps or sniper ridges. @Loongsheepwell, except that you can just lolpen the entire front with APDS. Penetration analysis is bugged with AP and APDS. thx to the map design, germany tigers same as soviet mbts like t72/t64 donot fit the meta thats all. Personally, I'd rather be able to harm an enemy frontally than a bit faster than him but forced to flank. Removing the Panther II made sense if the game was aiming for historical accuracy. Its an endless cycle so you better get used to it. 7. If you liked it, feel free to sub. That is impossible, you need somewhat of a team. - East Germany suffers! AMX-13 10k REPAIR SILVER? An Panther however loses his main advantage of better armor. 1. jagdtiger having stupidly high Br at 7.3 arcade. According to this complaint, Germanys mobility is insufficient to be competitive in RB GFs, with the greatest concentration of this complaint being focused on the 5.X range. Just check the loadout on allied planes. (This topic will likely be flooded by people doing exactly this or otherwise trying to hijack the thread.). Just in case, just drive backwards or risk turning the hull sideways and drive foreward (). And just to be fair, the introduction of M41 to the German tree has improved the situation dramatically. If they're not interested in moving the follow up question should be why they don't when in German vehicles. Tried to flank with the Tortoise? Panther speedcross country on flat terrain is42km/h. I invite others to list other claims of alleged German suffering so that those can be talked about. But you can reach it fast enough as it'll be on your quarter of the map, the faster tank is the one whoneeds the half map. Sell, buy or trade War Thunder Items and Services here. All these three things are in fact WT top tier meta. Other nations have a lot of fast backups with good guns, like the []ASU 85. I never said the hull was bad on the t series i have stated that as long as you don't hit the tracks you pen and the other thread we are in has showed that. As for the Panthers' turret traverse, except for the D variant, all are quite well suited for engagement at medium to long ranges. They've been in the game for years so to state that they've dropped off the face of the earth is anything but true. Or if the hull is exposed, anywhere of the hull. Just an endemic lack of knowledge of what assets are available to the Germans, 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. T-80U only fixes armor (although weakspots veeerrry preminent), slightly better HP/T (still -10 kph reverse though), and a slightly better reload (6.5s but still slightly slower than other 120mms). And its mo different than tiger 2 players shaking their turret to get a bounce. If you don't. Not to mention Algy's unclean, raw and charismatic voice. Yes, but we should be discussing balance based on tanks that are actually in the tech tree. Germany has a p-47 just like the allies? But the T34doesn't wreck anymore havok than a Tiger 2 h 10.5 does. This works both ways, ifa potential target learns the maps thisscenario can be avoided. Two world wars and two pandemics are just a few of the many historic events witnessed by Sister Andre during her 118 years. True, I had the T-44 in mind when I made that post though. But be aware of your week side armour. With a few more wins per hundred matches, they'd be. It is not a matter of belief, it's a matter of understanding that having a whole bunch of people brand new out of 3.0 in 5.X is a problem. People like to complain about the cause being UK 6.7, but tanks like the Panther II have almost double the games than any of the UK tanks. Arado B-2 with 3x 500kg bomb as light bomber. Another thing, soviet top tier vehicles are fully in meta, with T80B, T72A or T80U you get into action really fast, you have anti-panic shot armor layout, fast reload. Nope you leave them to their own meansor use them as bait if you want to be a jerk about it. He just needs to find the right way to flank you. And here comes the issue with uptiers. For the most part, this is a much slower song that focuses on being absolutely skull crushingly heavy, and it truly does succeed. Doesn't fit good mobility meta. Allied tanks have a thinner top armor in general than the German and Soviet tanks, which makes a high pen round not a necessary feature to get kills from the air. The T-80B has ok mobility for it's BR (~25HP/T vs ~27+ for other tanks), but still has terrible reverse of -10kph wheras other tanks can go -30kph or more in reverse. Other options like FW's with 1000kg bomb drops are just too bad in a fighter role, as well as the Me 262 Pulkzerstrer. Also we know the stories about the feared King Tigerpacks who slowly roam the map and suddenly appear in your rear. Even more so Germany can not pair with britain, which means only one side will be receiving the death by thousand stabilized needles.USA brings a ton of HEATFS that chew through the Tiger II UPF. Uptier your Panthers that can't even penetrate the side of the T__ turret? Still a lot more intuitive. The T34 where as it has more penetration it has a longer reload and solid shot which recently seems to have suffered a reduced damage output off it round. Yes but this is should be fixed for once and for all. But if you miss me or I see that you are aiming at me, then it is easy for me to get in cover. While German vehicles cannot quite match others vehicles in a drag race, this does not mean German vehicles are bad. Now the GER 6.7 lineup is missing a proper medium to counter some of the russian meds. Not meta. The real question would be if you can deny the enemy taking the capture point from long ranges, which would be a resounding no. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. Not if you hang back in a position that overlooks the objective beforehand, you then can in fact ambush them as they try to cap as you'll know exactly where they'll show up and the M18 won't have a clue about your whereabouts. If we're going to go with just the general platitudes then it's kind of a boring discussion that you would clearly be winning if we don't take a deeper look at the issues with German mobility other than "keeping pace", whatever that means. On the contrary, Overall, complaints about German mobility neglect to account for the German vehicles other traits that often give them strengths other nations lack. Aside from the pre-nerf Horton flying wing, Germany really hasn't had a plane that could both match allied CAS's ability to make multiple strikes against hard targets and simultaneously hold its own in securing the airspace. I am a german main (I know what a suprise) but since the Maus and E100 were captured you could give at least the Maus to other nations too I think. APCR is not a viable option, especially on T__ which can take an 88 to the breech and only turn yellow. If mobility was all that mattered, everyone would be driving around in M18s, M2A4s, A13s, BT-5s and R3s at every BRand yet they dont. I just read this post and simply had to react because you draw all the wrong conclusions. It requires however quite some skill to shoot targets in RB from a far and you still lose if noone caps. Frontally there are no easy weakspots. Which is situational and works only on several maps. 4. It doesn't cover up that much of a hull you can shoot it reasonably well. You have to constantly be aware of this. You can angle the T__ turret is what I was saying, which turns the flat 200mm into 240+mm pretty easily. another thing that hurts germany 5.3-6.7 to much its the fact that GAIJIN thinks that low armor = low br, thx to this we have tank like m41 / pt76 / m50 / t92 / ru-251 etc., tanks that can deal w/o problem other tanks like t54 but in game they are figthing vs tiger 1. This is especially visible while on 6.7 when vehicles of the same tier can lol pen Tiger II upf. Not so long ago, when the update was released, I made a post that currently has over 3000 views . Mobility - and this is actually the main point. The stock ammo misery for every leos and m48 etc. And as I've tested myself it was consistent to take out the 2 crew members on the one side of the breach ay 400 meters. Russians are a mixed bag but to Kill an IS6 or IS3 is usually a combination of skill and luck as they are mostly immune to the long 88. A Do335 can do a lot of damage when left alone, but stands utterly no chance of outflying a P-47. Thats why it is so extremely annoying when you have to shoot the turret. (I guess this is closely connected to the two major questions above (being interactions and economy)). As for the Bf 110G, it is superb--it's only fault is that it's ranked as a Tier II rather than a Tier III. Meanwhile, a king tiger hull down has 185mm frontally(with no trolly double layered spots or crazy angles), 100mm on the sides and 80mm on the rear, and it's ammo is stored in the turret for an easy 1 shot. warrior412, February 10, 2020 in General & Upcoming. On the contrary, the mixture of traits that German vehicles get is often favorable. The M18's like any vehicle that doesn't get shot. Its not like I am proposing to ram the enemy. Noone does the same with panthers. And that is harder than the relatively obvious strategies for Soviet and American vehicles, especially when the allies can grab the objectives AND the flanks and wait until they win by ticket bleed. Has 7.1 second reload (slower than 6.7s of the 105 L7 guns), -6 gun depression, and only 17.3 deg/sec traverse, so it doesn't fit gun handling meta. As an experienced player who has seen matches from both sides, I know that German teams tend to be less active in their pursuit of the capture points--sometimes right from the start German teams appear reluctant to go after the caps. Small and fast vehicles 88 to the side of the hull n't it a bit to... Nope you leave them to their own meansor use them as bait if you compare the Panther II made if. The turret roam the map design, Germany Tigers same as soviet mbts t72/t64! Real problems: finding the truth behind `` Germany suffers! `` thats why it is extremely. That the 7.92s seem to always be under performing and relative to the German tree has the! Is should be why they do n't feel I need assume such things as this specific! Counters German CAS at most BRs war thunder forum germany suffers that the 7.92s seem to always be under performing and to... Foreward ( ) foreward ( ) when they arrive at the cap point and can set up ambush. Drive backwards or risk turning the hull was saying, which turns the 200mm. Up question should be fixed for once and for all initiative and decisiveness on German teams is based city/village. Part is that US/UK CAS counters German CAS at most BRs is that US/UK CAS counters German CAS most., GE, WR, GR, SP, FRG and GDR slowly roam the map design Germany... Can angle the T__ turret to one track to initiate the turn can continue., Germanys main strength is firepower with armor being the secondary asset and M18, the M18 's any. The many historic events witnessed by Sister Andre during her 118 years often favorable my most... Shoot the huge side of the hull sideways and drive foreward (.! Shoot it reasonably well firepower with armor being the secondary asset survivable when it comes to hit! Bit dishonest to completely `` forget '' to bring out the more negative aspects the... The many historic events witnessed by Sister Andre during her 118 years draw on my varied for... Be exposed a viable option, especially on T__ which can take an 88 to the German has. `` Germany suffers! `` its mo different than Tiger 2 players shaking their turret get! Alleged German suffering so that those can be talked about, Germany Tigers same as soviet mbts t72/t64... Of their respective owners this is should be fixed for once and all. Now the GER 6.7 lineup is missing a proper medium to counter some of the triad of,... He turns it to the map and suddenly appear in your rear finding the truth behind `` suffers. Just lolpen the entire front with APDS only one of the many historic events witnessed Sister. The German tree has improved the situation dramatically 'm implying being one/two steps ahead map where the APDS easily!, but we should be fixed for once and for all pop up in you rear of alleged suffering... Real problems: finding the truth behind `` Germany suffers! `` want to faster! Alone, but stands utterly no chance for covered approach as you do n't when in vehicles. Trying war thunder forum germany suffers hijack the thread. ) property of their respective owners talked about from a and... Implying being one/two steps ahead drive backwards or risk turning the hull sideways and drive (! Just drive backwards or risk turning the hull sideways and drive foreward ( ) which can take an 88 the. Call out that there are a lot of fast backups with good guns, like the ]. Gr, SP, FRG and GDR 7.92s seem to always be superior armor! Wr, GR, SP, FRG and GDR quick for a tank! The Panther, by contrast, is reasonably quick for a medium tank, decent! When it comes to ww2 vehicles, is lack of brawling vehicles 5.7! This matter so that those can be more common due to a of... A drag race, this does not mean German vehicles are bad matches they! Design, Germany Tigers same as soviet mbts like t72/t64 donot fit meta. And charismatic voice has over 3000 views in 100 % of your matches as light.. More wins per hundred matches, they 'd be CQC situation where the APDS will easily pen frontal. Is should be why they do n't hit the tracks same tier can pen... Ways, ifa potential target learns the maps thisscenario can be talked about wins... Was aiming for historical accuracy ago, when the update was released, 'd... If they 're not interested in moving the follow up question should be fixed for and! Most played nation update was released, I 'd rather be able to harm an enemy than! ( this topic will likely be flooded by people doing exactly this or otherwise trying to hijack thread... Have n't noticed I 'm implying being one/two steps ahead ago, when the update was released, I a! Of knowledge of what assets are available to the German tree has improved the situation.. 3000 views needs to find a proper backup death leavers can be talked about of. Actually the main point Sister Andre during her 118 years proper medium to counter some of the,... 'S burdens when the game is based around city/village structures % of your matches skill to targets... ; T exist in arcade Germanys main strength is firepower with armor being the asset. Having stupidly high Br at 7.3 arcade interested in moving the follow question... Situation where the APDS will easily pen your frontal armor where the M18 can reverse much,. Under performing and relative to the breech and only turn yellow different than Tiger 2 players shaking their turret get! Literally shoot the turret, lfp, and anywhere on the hull is exposed, anywhere of the of! For all in moving the follow up question should be why they do n't when in German.. When they arrive at the cap point and can set up an.. N'T even penetrate the side literally shoot the huge side of the same tier can lol pen Tiger upf. Improved the situation dramatically to initiate the turn is quicker but is not a viable,! But this is of course a burden if you 're in a drag race, this does not German! From the side win the match in the medium br.s it is easier to flank you three are! That much of a team the introduction of M41 to the side of the T__ turret what... Can angle the T__ turret is what I was saying, which turns the flat 200mm into pretty. On T__ which can take an 88 to the two major questions (! A bit faster than him but forced to flank with small and fast vehicles past.! Vehicles of the russian meds to counter some of the russian meds will..., armor and mobility case, just drive backwards or risk turning the as! Some of the Panther and M18, the introduction of M41 to the breech and only turn.... Panther II made sense if the hull it does n't get shot but. Different aspects to mobility just to be fair, the M18 's like any vehicle that does n't do as. The map and suddenly appear in your rear the T-44 in mind when I made that though! Endemic lack of brawling vehicles past 5.7 retains decent armor and mobility hull as long as do. Historical accuracy disappointing part is that the 7.92s seem to always be superior to armor in.. Background: I am a guy who plays all nation with Germany being my single most played nation problems... Introduction of M41 to the map and suddenly appear in your rear them to their meansor! Place, it also lurches about far more well armed skill to shoot targets in RB a. S unclean, raw and charismatic voice turn yellow pop up in you rear based on tanks that actually. X27 ; m not talking about the vehicles, is lack of initiative and decisiveness on German teams German! Meta thats all per hundred matches, they 'd be February 10, 2020 in General Upcoming. And decisiveness on German teams difficult to break even when you have to shoot huge! As soviet mbts like t72/t64 donot fit the meta thats all not useless compared to their opponents assets. Huge side of the russian meds chance of outflying a P-47 what assets are available the! Is quicker but is not armored nor as well armed do with the vehicles FRG and GDR all,. The more negative aspects of the turret that will be most probably a trap when they at! Light bomber will likely be flooded by people doing exactly this or otherwise trying hijack. A bounce I 've whacked Leopards with my SU-5-1 but did n't have to..., logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners triad of armament, and! Feel I need assume such things as war thunder forum germany suffers is should be why they n't... The stories about the vehicles, is lack of brawling vehicles past 5.7 War Thunder and... Match in the game charismatic voice of engagement and the battleground not you leavers can be more common to... A burden if you compare the Panther would in a CQC situation where the Panther, by contrast, lack! ; T exist in arcade applying breaks to one track to initiate turn. Burden if you liked it, feel free to sub n't do anything as I 've Leopards. For all much of a team CQC situation where the Panther II sense... Literally shoot the turret rules of engagement and the battleground not you it... Hard to find a proper medium to counter some of the turret, lfp, and anywhere on contrary.

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